'This Week' Transcript: Former Maryland Governor Martin O'Malley
— -- Below is the "This Week" transcript for March 29, 2015. It is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
ANNOUNCER: On ABC's This Week, unfit to fly: the terrifying new details. Why that German co-pilot may have made his deadly decision. How we make sure it never happens again.
March Madness: critics blasting Indiana's new religious freedom law, calling it a license to discriminate. Will it spark a Final Four boycott? Our exclusive interview with Indiana's governor.
It's on: firebrand conservative Ted Cruz officially kickstarting the 2016 presidential race. He's first, but is he going to be a real contender?
Plus, our exclusive interview with a man revving up a run against Hillary. Could this Democrat take her down?
From ABC News, This Week with George Stephanopoulos begins now.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, HOST: Good morning. As you just heard, we have a lot to get to. Indiana Governor Mike Pence standing by live to take on the backlash over his state's new law, calls to boycott the Final Four. We're also going to get the latest on those high stakes nuclear talks with Iran.
But we do begin with this week's terror in the sky.
We have new details this morning on the physical and mental state of that German pilot as he made his deadly decision. And we're going to dig into what if anything to be done to prevent another horror like. ABC's David Kerley starts us off.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID KERLEY, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: As investigators this morning continue to comb through the life of 27 year old Andreas Lubitz, impacts of his deadly decision already affecting aviation. Listen to another Germanwings co-pilot address his passengers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My crew today and me, we are all here to fly with you...
KERLEY: An attempted reassurance as airlines and passengers are asking questions.
First, should pilots be more rigorously screened psychologically? In Lubitz's apartment, investigators found prescriptions and a doctor's note crumpled and discarded saying he was unfit to work. Prosecutors saying he kept an illness from his employer.
Still, Lubitz passed screenings from Lufthansa and was issued a medical certificate from the FAA after his training here in the U.S.
But initial clearance usually requires little if any time with a psychologist.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pilots are required to self-disclose if there are any psychological issues or treatments. Obviously, in a volunteer system like that it has limitations.
KERLEY: Second, how to look for warning signs. There are new reports now that depression may have led Lubitz to take extended time off during his flight training in Arizona. Should that have raised red flags?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely. People fall through the cracks.
The reason, I think, is that there is no set standard for how we're supposed to evaluate these people.
KERLEY: And then there's the question that already has some airlines acting: should pilots be allowed in the cockpit alone? On the Germanwings flight, the pilot can be heard desperately banging on the door trying to get back in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But really, this is kind of a simple fix, put the flight attendant in the cockpit when the pilot steps out.
KERLEY: Lufthansa now saying it will do what U.S. airlines do, mandate that two people must be inside the cockpit at all times.
For This Week, David Kerley, ABC News, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANOPOULOS: And let's get more on this now from former FBI special agent Brad Garrett, also Dan Atwell, he's been a leader in aviation for more than 20 years as a pilot, at the FAA and an executive in the airline industry. Welcome to you both.
And Brad, let me begin with you. You've done a lot of profiling of criminals, of murders. Does this Andreas Lubitz, this co-pilot, fit any kind of a profile of a mass murderer?
BRAD GARRETT, FRM. FBI SPECIAL AGENT: The closest he comes, George, is maybe more like workplace violence mass murderers, where people lose their job, then lose their identity, and typically when men lose their identity and everything is tied up in that and you add mental health issues, in particular depression to it, they want to annihilate what they can't have any more. And he also wanted to make a name for himself. And so it sort of fits that profile.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, that's the thing, there's one report in a German newspaper that he might have told a former girlfriend he wanted to make a name for himself, you're going to be hearing big things about me. And people have gone back and studied eight crashes over the last 10 years or so and discovered that five of the pilots who dealt with something like this had sent off some kind of warning signs.
GARRETT: I will tell you, George, as they do an autopsy of his background, they are going to find red signs, both in the depression era, statements he's made, talk in a very black, dark or stormy way, there will be a number of statements that would be red lights to people who know this type of behavior that are just not going to be picked up through normal testing.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But that does get to the question, Dan, and well should there be more rigorous psychological testing. Now it's sort of on the honor system with these pilots.
DAN ATWELL, AVIATION EXECUTIVE: We are screened incredibly closely, and scrutinized. And there is a form of a psychological...
STEPHANOPOULOS: But it's just a questionnaire, isn't it?
ATWELL: It is. It is a questionnaire. We don't in the process see a psychiatrist or a psychologist. And I think maybe additional screening at least on a recurrent basis every few years would probably be helpful.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Others have pointed out that maybe one of things that's going on here is a lowering of standards. You don't require the same amount of hours in the cockpit. And that prevents you from getting the kind of peer observations you would get with someone who was putting in hundreds and hundreds of hours in that cockpit.
ATWELL: Well, I can understand that opinion, but developing those hundreds and hundreds of hours takes years. And you're in front of many, many peers -- flight attendants, other pilots, check pilots, supervisors, instructors. There's many opportunities. And it really is sort of a team feeling at an airline and in flying organization, everybody is looking out for each other and every one, every pilot, every crew member is empowered to step in, to make decisions, it isn't -- it isn't autocratic.
STEPHANOPOULOS: The problem there, Brad Garrett, not if they're locked out of the cockpit. We've seen these reforms going on in Europe now, two people in the cockpit at all times, as we have now in the United States.
How about some of these other things that people are talking about now, cameras in the cockpit so there would be closer observation, maybe even giving air traffic controllers the ability to intervene and fly the plane remotely?
GARRETT: Well, I think certainly cameras, George, are a terrific idea, because you can watch in real time if it's relayed or you can put it in a black box format and capture it if the plane wrecks, you'll be able to recover it to see exactly what happened.
I'm not against the remote control part of this, although as we have experienced in so many other parts of the cyber world, if somebody is able to penetrate that, just think of the scenario we might have.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Is that the danger?
ATWELL: Of course. It is already in effect being used with unmanned aircraft. But of course if you have ATC has the ability to take over an airplane you introduce all kinds of complications, and of course opportunity for more bad things to happen.
GARRETT: OK, Dan Atwell, Brad Garrett, thanks very much.
We're going to turn now to that growing outrage over Indiana's new religious freedom act. Critics say it sanctions discrimination against gays and lesbians, some calling for a boycott of college basketball's final four in Indianapolis. We have an exclusive live interview with Indiana Governor Mike Pence after all the latest from ABC's Rebecca Jarvis.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REBECCA JARVIS, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: With thousands taking on Indiana's governor and legislator over the state's new religious freedom act. Governor Mike Pence announced overnight he's willing to clarify the intent of the legislation. Critics say the law, signed Thursday, gives businesses a license to discriminate, allowing them to refuse services to gay couples for religious reasons.
And now there are new questions about its impact on next week's NCAA Final Four in Indianapolis. NCAA President Mark Emmert saying the association is deeply committed to providing an inclusive environment for all our events. We are especially concerned about how this legislation could affect our student athletes and employees.
And the NBA and Indiana Pacers saying all fans, players and employees, should feel welcome at all events.
Put supporters note 19 other states have similar legislation, designed to keep government from forcing organizations to provide services against their religious beliefs.
GOV. MIKE PENCE, (R) INDIANA: And if I thought it was about discrimination, I would have vetoed it. In fact, it doesn't even apply to disputes between private individuals, unless government action is involved.
JARVIS: But this morning, backlash brewing, from Apple Chief Tim Cook saying we are deeply disappointed, to Jason Collins, the NBA's first openly gay player asking, is it going to be legal for someone to discriminate against me?
And now a new Twitter hashtagh #boycottIndiana growing online.
All of it braying those promoting business in Indiana.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It doesn't necessarily align with the brand position that is Hoosier hospitality.
JARVIS: For This Week, Rebecca Jarvis, ABC News, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANOPOULOS: And Governor Mike Pence joins us now. Good morning, governor. Thank you for joining us.
Was it a mistake to sign...
GOV. MIKE PENCE, (R) INDIANA: Good morning, George, thanks for the opportunity.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So was it a mistake to sign this law?
PENCE: Absolutely not. The Religious Freedom Restoration Act was signed into federal law by President Bill Clinton more than 20 years ago. And it lays out a framework for ensuring that a very high level of scrutiny is given any time government action impinges on the religious liberty of any American. After that, some 19 states followed that, adopted that statute. And after last year's Hobby Lobby case, Indiana properly brought the same version that then state senator Barack Obama voted for in Illinois before our legislature. And I was proud to sign it into law last week.
But, look, I think -- I understand that there's been a tremendous amount of misinformation and misunderstanding around this bill, and I'm just determined -- and I appreciate the time on your program -- I'm just determined to clarify this. This is about protecting the religious liberty of people of faith and families of faith across this country, that's what it's been for more than 20 years, and that's what it is now as the law in Indiana, George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But I think one of the problems that people have pointed out is that in Indiana, your civil rights laws don't include sexual orientation as a protected class. And even some of the supporters of the bill who were -- who appeared with you when you signed the bill, Eric Miller of Advanced America wrote that, "It will protect those who oppose gay marriage."
He put up this example. He said, "Christian bakers, florists and photographers should not be punished for refusing to participate in a homosexual marriage."
So this is a yes or no question.
Is Advance America right when they say a florist in Indiana can now refuse to serve a gay couple without fear of punishment?
PENCE: Well, let -- let me explain to you, the purpose of this bill is to empower and has been for more than 20 years, George. This is not speculative. The purpose of this legislation, which is the law in all 50 states in our federal courts and it's the law by either statute or court decisions in some 30 other states, is very simply to empower individual when they believe that actions of government impinge on their constitutional First Amendment freedom of religion.
And, frankly, George, there's a lot of people across this country who -- you're looking at ObamaCare and the Hobby Lobby decision, looking at other cases, who feel that their religious liberty is being infringed upon and -- and The Religious Freedom Restoration Act at the federal level and all the states now, including Indiana, who have it, are simply about addressing that.
This is not about discrimination, this is about...
STEPHANOPOULOS: But...
PENCE: -- empowering people...
STEPHANOPOULOS: But let me try to...
PENCE: (INAUDIBLE).
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- pin you...
PENCE: -- government overreach here.
(CROSSTALK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- down here though, on it, because your supporters say it would.
And so yes or no, if a florist in Indiana refuses to serve a gay couple at their wedding, is that legal now in Indiana?
