Douglas Brinkley has written multiple books on presidential history, politics and policy over the last 30 years. He has also been a professor of history at Rice University since 2007.
Ahead of Tuesday's vice presidential debate, he sat down with ABC News' Linsey Davis to discuss how Democratic candidate Tim Walz and Republican JD Vance could make a difference in the tight presidential race between Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump. He also talks about what the leaders of today could learn from former President Jimmy Carter, who turned 100 on Tuesday.
ABC NEWS: Tonight's vice presidential candidates hope to fare better than Sarah Palin and Dan Quayle did when they were facing Joe Biden and Lloyd Bentsen, respectively. Not that it always matters in the end, as our next guest knows all too well.
Joining us now is presidential historian and Rice University professor Douglas Brinkley. Thank you so much for your time tonight. We know from past polls that vice presidential debates often have only a marginal impact. Do you think this one might be different?
BRINKLEY: I think this one is definitely different. The public doesn't really know Governor Walz well, they don't know JD Vance very well. And we are really getting close to Election Day. And as everybody knows, we're down to a handful of swing states. So you might see them going at particular issues, you know, per state.
And then we have the dockworkers strike. We have Israel with Iran. We have what's going on with Russia and Ukraine. I mean, it is just a very dangerous and noisy news moment, including the hurricane through, and flooding, through Georgia and North Carolina. So they're each going to try to introduce themselves, do their biography, but I think it's going to be barbed and pointed.
ABC NEWS: And both candidates, as you know, have been targeting undecided voters in swing states. What will work best to reach those voters tonight -- style or substance?
BRINKLEY: I think JD Vance came out of the gate badly, you know, and he made blunder after blunder. And then he had the whole dogs and cats being eaten in Ohio. On the other hand, he had the power of "Hillbilly Elegy" around him and Ohio being a red state. So he may surprise people. He needs to really show his intellectual chops on foreign policy. He is a Yale lawyer, he is very bright.
Gov. Walz is kind of, is a professional politician from Minnesota. But that so-called, you know, blue wall for Harris is essential, meaning the Democrats probably have Minnesota. But what about Wisconsin? What about Michigan? If he could kind of appeal that to the heartland; that's why Harris picked him over Joel [Josh], you know, over Shapiro in Pennsylvania or [Mark] Kelly in Arizona. And I do think that Walz has got the pressure on him in the sense that Harris is, there was a Vice President Harris, she has moved on different issues, and he's got to make sure he doesn't say something that she's not saying.
Well, Donald Trump with Social, you know, Truth Social puts something different out every second and it doesn't really stick. So I think he could almost say anything, Vance. Whereas Walz has to make sure he's in tune with Harris of the moment.
ABC NEWS: And switching gears now, you wrote a popular book some years ago about Jimmy Carter titled "The Unfinished Presidency." He, of course, turned 100 today. What can both candidates learn from Mr. Carter?
BRINKLEY: Both can learn honesty, integrity. You know, JD Vance and Gov. Walz are both former veterans like Jimmy Carter was in the Navy for so long. But it's just Carter's steadfastness. I mean, there would have been no peace between Egypt and Israel if Carter at Camp David at one point didn't block [Prime Minister] Menachem Begin of Israel from leaving the retreat. [Egyptian President] Anwar Sadat, he learned to befriend. And that peace between Egypt and Israel is enduring.
So do what's right for the country. Put a party second or a distant third and try to remember, young people are watching. We need some degree of stability because our country is unraveling. I think because of an education crisis, nobody understands government or civics. And these two individuals, their very bright, have a chance to play above the board and not go into the gutter or with sniper fire one time after the other, in a rhetorical way.
ABC NEWS: Play above the board. All right. Presidential historian and Rice University professor Douglas Brinkley, we thank you so much for your time and insight.